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Post by fuzzwah on Feb 17, 2021 14:37:49 GMT
I'm sure most of us miss David Jackson not being a member of VdGG these days. The reasons for him not being there still remain a band secret. I've heard Peter touch on the subject in several interviews but he doesn't go deeper. From those first few moments of David appearing on Darkness, the opening track of The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other, I was spellbound by his playing. In my opinion the albums he's played on are superior to the other albums by the band, although I'm really happy that they are still with us. Sometimes I've wondered why didn't they get a replacement sax player, at least for the live gigs. Mel Collins would be great when he's not busy with King Crimson.
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Post by ilgebra on Feb 17, 2021 18:36:36 GMT
I don't think anyone could replace Jackson. I love Mel Collins and his presence has transformed the post-2013 King Crimson into a sublime live music force but his approach is nothing like Jackson's (the double saxes, the effects that Jackson uses). It's sad that he's no longer with the band but i am glad that no attempt was made to replace him.
I saw the band three times: The RFH gig in 2005, NEARfest in 2009, and NYC in 2012. 2005 was my favorite of the three and Jackson was a big part of that (the setlist was another). All three gigs were great, of course.
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Post by Lighthouse on Feb 18, 2021 10:04:21 GMT
I think their music lost a lot without DJ on the albums, funnily live it works well enough without him. Without the sax the music loses much of its rougher edges, and the organ dominates too much. Even if the organ by VdGG sounds darker and far less kitschy than on other band's albums (like Genesis or the boring ELP), it is still something I don't like to hear that much. That was balanced very well on the all the VdGG albums before DJ left.
I see no problem to have another musician playing with them, and I don't know why Stuart Gordon wasn't asked. A new musician brings on his own style, and that's not a bad thing. And VdG worked very well with a violin.
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Post by ilgebra on Feb 18, 2021 17:10:59 GMT
I agree that they sounded good with a violin but 1) that's a completely different instrument so Jackson's absence isn't as obvious, 2) they were playing different music at that time, and 3) they dropped "Generator" from the name in acknowledgment that it was a different band.
VDGG wasn't like other bands, like KC, that had members coming and going all the time. They were such a tight and cohesive unit. That's why it seems different to me than another band hiring a replacement for someone that leaves. And Jackson's style was so unique (esp. with the two saxes, which was more popular back then because of Roland Kirk's popularity but isn't very common today to the best of my knowledge). But if The Who could go on without Moon (and later Entwistle), who were similarly unique and similarly entwined with the band, I guess anything is possible.
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Post by Lighthouse on Feb 19, 2021 7:36:33 GMT
Actually they dropped the Generator not immediately when the new band was formed, they still toured under VdGG in the first half of 1977. They dropped it at the time of the album release, but I doubt that it had anything to do with the change of the line-up. Interestingly I also think that VdGG had always a constant line-up, but when I look closer I see that in fact there were also a lot of changes, and in the classic era only 4 of 8 (or better 9)albums were made with the exact same line-up. They doubtless changed far less than Crimson, but still there was an ongoing coming and going.
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Post by ilgebra on Feb 19, 2021 14:04:42 GMT
True that Nic Potter left and Fripp guested but they were still remarkably stable from "Least We Can Do" through "World Record" (even during the break they guested as an intact unit on songs on Hammill's solo records). In the music world (rock, jazz), that's pretty impressive.
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mj
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Post by mj on Feb 25, 2021 3:07:27 GMT
It does seem a shame that DJ and the other three can never seemingly be reconciled, but there you go. It's still a mystery to me as to what caused the split back in 2005.
It's been a long time now, FFS. After all they went through as well. DJ and PH shared digs for a while during the early days, didn't they ?
It really would be a pity if their differences couldn't be patched up, and one of them (at least) took that with them to the grave. These are grown men in their seventies now.
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Post by ilgebra on Feb 25, 2021 5:29:50 GMT
Hammill said at the time that Jackson wasn't able to commit himself to VDGG for a set period of time--something along those lines. I interpreted that to mean that it was difficult to schedule tours and recording with him. Maybe I'm misremembering his explanation.
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Post by Lighthouse on Feb 25, 2021 7:52:53 GMT
I remember that they had some serious trouble, without specifying what kind, and that this trouble came like a shock, after so many decades of a fruitful musical relationship and personal friendship. But that was now 15 years ago, enough time to get things sorted out. Enough time to assume that it won't happen.
Whatever, still I really wish they could let bygones be bygones, and that they come together for what (if it ever happens) could very well be their farewell tour. Hammill's voice and the sax, that worked for me always better than any other instrument Hammill was singing to.
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mj
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Post by mj on Feb 25, 2021 12:25:41 GMT
It seems to me (from what I've tried to glean from various interviews over the years) that DJ and VdGG will never reunite on stage or in the studio. For whatever manifold reasons. More's the pity.
From a listener / fan's point of view, it's hard to imagine what could be such an insurmountable difficulty (or difficulties). We can only speculate. No-one really wants to shed too much light on it, for reasons known to themselves. That's their right, and we have to respect that. They could change their minds in the future though.
To be fair to all concerned, they have handled it with dignity, and gravitas.
I think we just have to accept the situation though. It is what it is.
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jack
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Post by jack on May 16, 2021 20:01:18 GMT
Listen to Squid on H to He. I don’t think I have to say more
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Post by Bertus on Jun 3, 2021 13:29:15 GMT
I have seen VdGG with DJ in 2005 for 2 times and I must say that I was a bit disappointed of the performance of DJ. I thought he couldn't bring the power to the music on stage as he did on the recordings. But I think I stand alone with this opinion.
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Post by buddhabreath on Sept 14, 2021 15:35:09 GMT
A resounding WITH!
I have to disagree regarding DJ's performance overall - I thought he was inspired at the RFH concert I witnessed in 20005 and just today listening to Masks from "Real Time" I thought his playing was excellent, for example. Of course it is all opinion, and I can see where you're coming from, but a better comparison might be to live material from the past.
It is a shame that DJ could not commit to the new incarnation of VDGG and clearly PH was rather outraged by this, but I'm sure DJ had is reasons - walk a mile in another man's shoes and all that. The trio does well, but it's not the same by any stretch and I find my brain trying to fill the gaps with DJ's sax lines. I really wish they could bury the hatchet for a farewell tour and even a last album. Damn.
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Post by rodneysofa on Oct 1, 2021 23:47:48 GMT
I would say having all 4 members on stage playing well blows away any trio performance that I have seen. The energy they can create as a foursome will always beat what the trio can do. I've only seen the 2005, but Paris and Rome were very special gigs.
The reality is that the trio and DJ have moved on in life and don't seem to be on the same page. Any attempt to bring DJ back just, even just for a tour would be contrived and the creative energy would be missing.
I enjoy the trio concerts, they are a tighter group today and they play really well together but there is slightly less magic in the performance without DJ..
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Post by PinkyFloydyFan on Nov 25, 2021 17:08:13 GMT
Sans DJ, VDGG est moins intéressant. C'est aussi simple que ça!
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Post by stewinho on Dec 16, 2021 11:57:34 GMT
I think their music lost a lot without DJ on the albums, funnily live it works well enough without him. Without the sax the music loses much of its rougher edges, and the organ dominates too much. Even if the organ by VdGG sounds darker and far less kitschy than on other band's albums (like Genesis or the boring ELP), it is still something I don't like to hear that much. That was balanced very well on the all the VdGG albums before DJ left. I see no problem to have another musician playing with them, and I don't know why Stuart Gordon wasn't asked. A new musician brings on his own style, and that's not a bad thing. And VdG worked very well with a violin.
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Post by stewinho on Dec 16, 2021 11:59:20 GMT
Hooly(Stewart gordon cannot be asked to replace Jax, because, alas, he is dead (Afaik)
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Post by Lighthouse on Dec 16, 2021 16:24:24 GMT
I know, but in 2007 he was alive and probably still well.
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